Slingin' Sammie takes a swing at the NCAA, EA

[helenahusker]

Heard this on USC. Pretty interesting stuff.

The plot of many a 3 a.m.-caliber movie has featured the put-upon nerd matriculating to vast wealth in the computer industry -- while the bullying quarterback peaks before age 22. Yet in San Francisco Federal Court you could call it "Revenge of the Jocks."

Samuel Keller, a San Ramon High School graduate and former quarterback at Arizona State and Nebraska, on Tuesday filed a class action suit against Bay Area-based videogame company Electronic Arts -- and, while he was at it, the NCAA -- over the use of unpaid student athletes' names and likenesses in games.

The suit opens up strong, claiming in its first sentence that it "arises out of the blatant and unlawful use of National Collegiate Athletic Association ('NCAA') student likenesses in videogames produced by Electronic Arts ... to increase sales and profits." This, the complaint continues, is abetted with a wink-and-nod assist from the NCAA, which "intentionally circumvents the prohibitions on utilizing student athletes' names in commercial ventures by allowing gamers to upload entire rosters, which include players' names and other information, directly into the game in a matter of seconds."

This, the suit alleges, is a symbiotic relationship between the NCAA and EA that leaves the student athletes -- who make this whole venture possible -- empty-handed. 

The suit goes on to state that the NCAA's own bylaw 12.5 prohibits the commercialization of a student athlete's "name, picture, or likeness." The athletes themselves must even sign an affidavit confirming they "read and understand" this rule regarding the maintaining of their amateur status.

So it rankled Keller to note that "with rare exception, virtually every real-life Division I football or basketball player in the NCAA has a corresponding player in Electronic Arts' games with the same jersey number, and virtually identical height, weight, build and home state. In addition Electronic Arts often matches the player's, skin tone, hair color, and often even a player's hair style."

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/05/jocks_vs_nerds_--_the_final_ba.php

[sho]

Heard this on USC. Pretty interesting stuff.

The plot of many a 3 a.m.-caliber movie has featured the put-upon nerd matriculating to vast wealth in the computer industry -- while the bullying quarterback peaks before age 22. Yet in San Francisco Federal Court you could call it "Revenge of the Jocks."

Samuel Keller, a San Ramon High School graduate and former quarterback at Arizona State and Nebraska, on Tuesday filed a class action suit against Bay Area-based videogame company Electronic Arts -- and, while he was at it, the NCAA -- over the use of unpaid student athletes' names and likenesses in games.

The suit opens up strong, claiming in its first sentence that it "arises out of the blatant and unlawful use of National Collegiate Athletic Association ('NCAA') student likenesses in videogames produced by Electronic Arts ... to increase sales and profits." This, the complaint continues, is abetted with a wink-and-nod assist from the NCAA, which "intentionally circumvents the prohibitions on utilizing student athletes' names in commercial ventures by allowing gamers to upload entire rosters, which include players' names and other information, directly into the game in a matter of seconds."

This, the suit alleges, is a symbiotic relationship between the NCAA and EA that leaves the student athletes -- who make this whole venture possible -- empty-handed. 

The suit goes on to state that the NCAA's own bylaw 12.5 prohibits the commercialization of a student athlete's "name, picture, or likeness." The athletes themselves must even sign an affidavit confirming they "read and understand" this rule regarding the maintaining of their amateur status.

So it rankled Keller to note that "with rare exception, virtually every real-life Division I football or basketball player in the NCAA has a corresponding player in Electronic Arts' games with the same jersey number, and virtually identical height, weight, build and home state. In addition Electronic Arts often matches the player's, skin tone, hair color, and often even a player's hair style."

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2009/05/jocks_vs_nerds_--_the_final_ba.php

He raises a valid point, especially concerning the 'likeness' feature.  It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

[RedSnapper]

He raises a valid point, especially concerning the 'likeness' feature.  It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

Completely agree.  Anyone remember when Eric Crouch was actually at the EASports facilities with a bunch of sensors all over him, going through the motions for their next NCAA Football release?  When they've done stuff like that, they are going to have a hard time making their denials plausible.

[SRT4Diggy]

Well, i said it long ago that Keller was a dbag. and as much as i hate to toot my own horn, well, toot-toot. 

The NCAA games are great, I'm a huge fan of the college football ones in particular (hate pro football and anything basketball). Yes i will admit, most of the info is similar to the actual collegiate athlete (what state they're from, closeness in height/weight, skin color, most (but not all) jersey numbers are correct, some have similar albeit generic hair cuts). On the contrary tho, the hometown is usually incorrect, positions and numbers are off sometimes (even at the BCS schools' teams), and not all of the players are correctly portrayed.

Example; last years game showed Husker redshirt TE Ben Cotton as a black kid. So if Sam-a-lam-a-ding-dong is looking for compensation, does that mean since Cotton's likeness wasn't used, he gets shafted (pending the ruling if it gets to that goes in his favor)? The players don't choose what they look like in the game, and if you're going after the NCAA over all the players' likenesses then you fail.

If Joe Schmo walks into a room and shoots and kills 15 of the 20 people in it, and the other 5 die at the same time but their deaths are totally unrelated to the shootings (lets say they all had a mean case of the swine flu), you can't pin that on Mr. Schmo.

And yes, you can manually enter the player's names (or download a list of rosters some other fan of the game NOT related to EA or the NCAA went thru and manually entered) correctly (spelling, proper name used i.e. Joseph Ganz i dont think would work, but Joe Ganz did) will allow the announcers to say their name in the game. On the contrary to that is there are even more fake players' names created for the 60 year dynasty mode (after 4 years no one in the game will be from the original roster) who's names are all announced during the matchups. So is Amukumara a less common surname, yes. But he's not the only person in the world with that name. So does someone with a common last name ie Todd Peterson, get shafted since his "likeness" represented by his last name is a common one?

I can see Keller's arguement, but at the same time 'really? Are you that bitter that you suck and aren't making a lot of money playin' ball somewhere that this is what you stoop to?' Reference only my now dated postings on anything Sam Keller related for my thoughts on him as they haven't changed and this only solidifies them.

Next Point;
Ask any given college player (any sport) and I'm guessing they'll tell you they're elated to see a player in the game who looks like them wearing their number on the team they play for in a video game that millions of people love and enjoy. For a college student, that should be compensation enough. It's why there is the "create-a-player" feature in every sports game out there. Admittedly,  you'd be hard pressed to find one that would turn down a couple thousand dollars for  the use of said likeness. So to argue that,  what type or amount in "royalties" would be considered fair? Be sure to take into consideration the HUGE discrepancy in talent level, exposure, and profitability on EA and the NCAA's part as having the likeness of say Sam Bradford vs the likeness of the starting halfback for the Utah State Aggies, or USC having more players accurately represented than say Florida Atlantic. At some point you'd have to draw the line and that would mean many players of the 110+ teams in the game get the short end of the stick.

And what about the collegiate athletes who's sports aren't represented by a video game? Baseball (discontinued after what, a year or two on the PS2?), Volleyball, Softball, Soccer, Bowling, Rugby, Lacrosse, etc. They put the same amount of work and have all their lives to make it to the collegiate level of competition. Just because they're sport isn't as profitable or popular by the general public or as functional in a video game, they too would be left out. Remember, those football, basketball, etc players did just as much to be included (in likeness) in video games as the baseball, volleyball, soccer players did to not be included in a video game; NOTHING aside from play their sport to the best of their ability. At which point I could bring gender equality in sports video games into play but I think you get my point.

Final Note; (Directed at you, RedSnapper)
Who did you want to do the games' motion capturing? A fat old golfer? A hockey player? I for one, am partial to the incredible athlete at the time who excelled at their sport (a Heisman winning QB who was faster and more agile than most DB's fits that mold nicely) being used. All motion capture does is, uh oh, you guessed it, capture motion! How does Little White Ball A attached to the hand move in relation to Little White Ball B attached to the elbow on an athlete who plays the sport? If you even try to create an argument on this one, you're saying that the NCAA can't use the way a player moves his arms when he runs, catches, throws, etc. C'mon, Get real.

Keller, give it up. Time to grow up and get a job in the real world like rest of us. You had more opportunity than most, but we can't all make millions in the NFL. That doesn't mean we all get to file frivolous lawsuits against large corporations and associations. Only the scum-bags of our society sink to that level. And with my last "on the contrary", at least he's helping keep some corrupt <explicit> lawyer(s) from foreclosing on their beach front homes for a few more months. 'Grats. Dbag.

[HuskerFan2002]

Is it me or is Keller being desperate to make some money out of this? It's kinda sad.

[MadRat]

Nah, that would mean he was an opportunist. He clearly didn't paint himself as an opportunist by transferring from AZ to Nebraska to play for Bill Callahan...

[skrzfan]

Is it me or is Keller being desperate to make some money out of this? It's kinda sad.

that's how I see it.  Maybe he's realized he's not going to make it in the NFL so he's trying to make money some other way.

[njhuskerfan]

I don't get why people would be upset with Keller's legal actions.  I don't consider myself to be a liberal economically or politically, but it seems obvious, at least to me, that EA Sports is working hand in glove with the NCAA.  EA by its use of high profile football programs and players sells more games.  The NCAA by its cooperation with  (or at least blind eye) toward EA's efforts works to maintain or increase the popularity of college football/NCAA revenues.  Who doesn't benefit by this arrangement?  Only the player. As a non-lawyer, I at least, can see the obvious merit of this class-action suit.  More power to Keller.  What about football jerseys with the players number (and name) on it?  How many tens of thousands of them are sold?  How much does the player make?

Don't give me the argument that the players are getting an education in return.  That doesn't wash here.  Prior the the advent of EA, the players were getting tuition, books, room and board.  The only difference with the introduction of EA is that some outside company is now making money off the players on-field actions. Compensate them for it.

As an analogy, not so long ago President Reagan introduced use taxes or fees for things that formerly were free.  Example, national parks, publications, etc.  All I'm saying is the times are changing.  If you're using something that belongs to somebody else (the player's identity), compensate them for it.

[sho]

Is it me or is Keller being desperate to make some money out of this? It's kinda sad.

I don't see it that way, especially since it's a class-action lawsuit, no player, past or present, will get rich off of this if it wins.  More than likely the lawyer hunted around trying to find a face for his lawsuit and Sam agreed.

[RED ED]

what about the cover shots for the games. i know they are used after the player has moved on but they are in uniform and sometimes it looks like a picture taken during a game

[RedSnapper]

I don't get why people would be upset with Keller's legal actions.  I don't consider myself to be a liberal economically or politically, but it seems obvious, at least to me, that EA Sports is working hand in glove with the NCAA.  EA by its use of high profile football programs and players sells more games.  The NCAA by its cooperation with  (or at least blind eye) toward EA's efforts works to maintain or increase the popularity of college football/NCAA revenues.  Who doesn't benefit by this arrangement?  Only the player. As a non-lawyer, I at least, can see the obvious merit of this class-action suit.  More power to Keller.  What about football jerseys with the players number (and name) on it?  How many tens of thousands of them are sold?  How much does the player make?

Don't give me the argument that the players are getting an education in return.  That doesn't wash here.  Prior the the advent of EA, the players were getting tuition, books, room and board.  The only difference with the introduction of EA is that some outside company is now making money off the players on-field actions. Compensate them for it.

As an analogy, not so long ago President Reagan introduced use taxes or fees for things that formerly were free.  Example, national parks, publications, etc.  All I'm saying is the times are changing.  If you're using something that belongs to somebody else (the player's identity), compensate them for it.

AMEN.

[no1huskafan]

I don't get why people would be upset with Keller's legal actions.  I don't consider myself to be a liberal economically or politically, but it seems obvious, at least to me, that EA Sports is working hand in glove with the NCAA.  EA by its use of high profile football programs and players sells more games.  The NCAA by its cooperation with  (or at least blind eye) toward EA's efforts works to maintain or increase the popularity of college football/NCAA revenues.  Who doesn't benefit by this arrangement?  Only the player. As a non-lawyer, I at least, can see the obvious merit of this class-action suit.  More power to Keller.  What about football jerseys with the players number (and name) on it?  How many tens of thousands of them are sold?  How much does the player make?

Don't give me the argument that the players are getting an education in return.  That doesn't wash here.  Prior the the advent of EA, the players were getting tuition, books, room and board.  The only difference with the introduction of EA is that some outside company is now making money off the players on-field actions. Compensate them for it.

As an analogy, not so long ago President Reagan introduced use taxes or fees for things that formerly were free.  Example, national parks, publications, etc.  All I'm saying is the times are changing.  If you're using something that belongs to somebody else (the player's identity), compensate them for it.

Because of this game, it exposes players to so many different people all over the country. For example, I had no idea who Mathias Kiwanaka(sp?) was. But I saw that he was a great DE and I liked playing with him on the game. I became a little bit of a fan of his and I still like to follow his progress to this day. This game helps promote and hype players even more, thats what they get out of it.